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Home » Public Transport Data » NPTDR 2012

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1/22/2013 5:31:48 PM

RobT
RobT
Posts: 62
Hi all,

Does anyone know when the NPTDR data for 2012 will be released?

Thanks,

Rob
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1/23/2013 4:12:15 PM

admin
admin
Administrator
Posts: 397
Hi Rob,



This is a good question, there is a possibility it might not be released. I would suggest using the TNDS dataset to get the latest bus datasets. For more information on this see: -




http://traveline.info/tnds-login-or-register.html




Regards,




Admin
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1/24/2013 12:15:57 PM

RC
RC
Posts: 4
Hi Dan/admin,

What makes you think the new data might not be available? I am hoping to see its release in the next few weeks because I need that for a job.

RC
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1/24/2013 1:53:35 PM

admin
admin
Administrator
Posts: 397
Hi RC,



After chatting to the Department for Transport, it has not yet been decided if it's worthwhile continuing with the NPTDR as the data is available from other sources, like the TNDS outlined previously.




Regards,




Admin
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1/24/2013 2:01:08 PM

RC
RC
Posts: 4
Thanks Admin,
I am more familiar with CIF than TXC as its text file format are easier to be modified. Can you please tell me what are the alternatives to TNDS?

RC
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1/24/2013 2:19:35 PM

admin
admin
Administrator
Posts: 397
Unfortunately there are no other alternatives to the TNDS at present. Also the TNDS only covers the bus, tube and some ferry services. For the rail information you need to access this from ATOC, and currently the coach data is being discussed about becoming an open data set.
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2/11/2013 2:09:38 PM

MJ
MJ
Posts: 17
I have finally got access to TNDS, but I am not having much joy exporting it into Accession.
If I select the 'Import as a TransXChange data' option I get the following error:
"Error creating the XML Validator, please make sure that you have installed .NET 2.0 runtime && the XSLellentValidator.dll is in the exe folder"

If I select the 'Import from NAPTAN data' it also doesn't appear to work either.

Also, how can I reduce down the data? For instance I want data for Oxfordshire but not sure how I can limit the SE region down with certainity so it only covers this county if it is in this region at all?!
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2/11/2013 2:42:54 PM

admin
admin
Administrator
Posts: 397
Hi MJ,




Ok the first check is to make sure the XSLellentValidator.dll is in the program files/accession folder. If not you can get this file from the following thread: -




http://forum.basemap.co.uk/topic118-xslellentvalidatordll-missing.aspx




If you have the file, then you might need to register the DLL, For XML validator registration, since it is .NET dll, it requires .NET 2.0 runtime installed. To manually register the dll, using the following steps:

1.Navigate to C:\WINDOWS\Microsoft.NET\Framework, there should be a directory with a name such as “v2.0.X”, where X is some minor version number (such as 50727) , if this directory does not exist, you need to install .NET 2.0 runtime (download it from Microsoft website)

2.Start command prompt, if you are running Vista, you need to run it as Administrator

3.Navigate to Accession install directory (C:\Program Files\Accession), where you should find XSLellentValidator.dll, type the following command:




C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v2.0.50727\regasm XSLellentValidator.dll ; remember 50727 is the minor version number, depending on the version of .NET 2.0 runtime installed, this number may be different on different machines.




This should then solve this issue.




Finally to address the last point, the data is only available in Traveline regions. The traveline site gives an indication of where these are. (http://traveline.info)
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2/19/2013 6:05:17 PM

PeterW
PeterW
Posts: 7
The Traveline website states that there won't be a 2012 NPTDR: http://travelinedata.org.uk/repository.htm

If this is correct, then we will all have a bit of a learning curve with TNDS+ATOC data, and a bit of challenge to calculate KPIs so that we have a consistent time-series.

Would the first person to succeed please describe for the rest of us how they did it? Thanks!
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2/19/2013 7:37:33 PM

admin
admin
Administrator
Posts: 397
Peter,



Would you say the NPTDR is important for the work you do? We spoke with the DfT and they were interested in talking to public sector bodies who might still have use for the NPTDR...
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2/20/2013 6:02:08 PM

MJ
MJ
Posts: 17
PeterW,
I have been successful with using the TNDS data only. I haven't tried the ATOC data yet.
The process for TNDS took a while to work but involved the following:
- Taking the NAPTAN 'Stops.csv' file which contains 400k+ bus stops for the UK and converting it to a geo-database using FME. Opening the gdb in ArcGIS then doing a spatial selection based on the districts of interest, then exporting the attribute table to a csv
- This csv then needs to be loaded into Accession so you have your bus stops
- If you try and load all the stops into Accession it doesn't seem to work, ArcGIS can't handle the 400k+ rows of data
- Then download the TNDS data for the region of interest, unzip the data. We managed to reduce the amount of data by changing how Windows searches in folders to also make it search in files for a particular place name e.g. Rochdale
- All XML files identified in the search were then copied to another folder then loading into Accession via the TXC button

- In our company I couldn't upload the TXC data whilst connected to our company network as our firewall blocked the upload somehow. But we managed to get it to work outside our network from the C: drive of the computer Accession is installed on
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2/21/2013 9:21:17 AM

jdallen
jdallen
Posts: 8
Hello All,

Just to follow up on the post concerning use of the data within public sector bodies – we were planning to use the NPTDR data within Accession to do some follow-up analysis of the impacts of bus service review changes across the county over the last 12/18 months. We didn’t use the Oct 2011 data as this was just before a whole series of changes made following this review. I have not had a chance to look at TNDS or the rail information from ATCO yet. Importing NPTDR data was relatively straightforward. If NPTDR data is not to be released, is there any possibility of some step-by-step user friendly descriptions of how to go about this for both the bus (TNDS) and rail (ATCO) data being produced, assuming this data will allow consistent comparisons with previous analysis based on NPTDR?

Kind regards,


Jamie
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2/21/2013 10:18:10 AM

admin
admin
Administrator
Posts: 397
The ATOC Rail data is a funny one, the pseudo CIF file that's produced can not be read in Accession. It will require someone manually converting each line into a valid CIF file format - we will look to potentially write a converter/importer in the future. The main issue is that this file is national, therefore will have a detrimental affect on the performance speed. Also the TNDS is only avaialble by TL region, so you either have to do a windows search in the files like MJ explained earlier, or import the lot.
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2/25/2013 9:54:37 AM

Rowley
Rowley
Posts: 97
Hi all,

I have given up trying to use the TNDS file, after much fiddling by our IT guys to open up all the relevant firewalls on my computer so I could actually load in TXC files, the process is so labourious with having to upload Naptan data first (and for our county, we have to load in all adjacent authority data as well, and one of these is Centro so that takes forever), after 10 sets of Naptan data have been loaded I have kind of given up. If I only load in Naptan stops for our authoritiy it seems to miss out stops near the boundaries. I still haven't been able to replicate what I have been able to do using CIF files. I used to be able to download out of Traveline up to date CIF data for any service in the West Midlands, but from June 1st the new version of Traveline came on line and we have not been able to do this. So, if I am doing any Accession calculations for a specific area I am having to use a June 2012 network and update all the relevant timetables in that area it if any network changes have taken place, so we now have a number of route networks flaoting around, some with Stafford changes for 2013, some with Tamworth changes from Oct 2012 etc.

I have never used the NPTDR file as it will only be up to date for a very short space of time, and if you are doing a calculation relevant to a new development then it really needs to be up to date, but at least it was CIF format. The rail file was very useful, although national, but could have been a bit easier to navigate through, unless you know rail headcodes for each journey of a service it could take forever to isolate a journey or service that needed amending.

Rowley
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2/27/2013 1:48:00 PM

Rowley
Rowley
Posts: 97
Hi all,

I have a few issues with TNDS data, which I have now finally managed to get into Accession, but some of the information is missing which is causing problems with trying to run a calculation. Within the timetables for each service imported, for certain services the Vehicle Type, start/end date and operating days are missing, and each journey in the timetable is suspended. This has occurred for all services coded by Staffordshire on Traveline (and Stoke-on-Trent and other West Mids authorities except Centro) but those coded by Centro do include a Vehicle type and Days of Operation (but not start/end date) and each journey is not suspended.

What is also clear in the TNDS data is that some journeys in the timetable have incorrect running times, the journeys exist and the start time is correct but the intermediate times are too quick. I have one peak hour journey on an interurban route into Stafford that in the TNDS data appears to arrive 11 minutes earlier than actually timetabled. This particular journey is 8 mins too early at the previous timing point, then 5 mins too early at the one before that. The correct times appear on Traveline however. I have looked at a couple of Stoke-on-Trent services which also appear to be 10-15 mins too fast compared to the timetabled journey time.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Rowley
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2/27/2013 4:35:46 PM

admin
admin
Administrator
Posts: 397
Hi Rowley,



That is concerning, what date of data are you using? What is the service number that's showing the issue highlighted?




Cheers,




Admin
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2/28/2013 9:06:32 AM

Rowley
Rowley
Posts: 97
Hello,

The TNDS data set I was using for Staffordshire was from 15th January 2013, so not totally up to date but that was the most recent set we had already downloaded. All timetables beginning with the prefix twm_ have journeys suspended in the timetables when imported. Timetables with a twm_ prefix are those coded into Traveline by the West Mids shire authorities such as Staffs, Worcs, Warks and Stoke-on-Trent. Those timetables with a cen_ prefix are coded into Traveline by Centro and these import in with a vehicle type and days of operation.

I have just looked at 2 services so far in Accession in terms of journey times compared to timetabled journeys times, service 825 (Staffs service) and service 101 (Stoke service). Will be having a look at a Centro coded service (110) to see whether the journey time problem is affecting these services as well.

Thanks,

Rowley
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4/12/2013 5:47:33 PM

PeterW
PeterW
Posts: 7
admin wrote:
Would you say the NPTDR is important for the work you do? We spoke with the DfT and they were interested in talking to public sector bodies who might still have use for the NPTDR...


Yes, NPTDR has been central to our accessibility analysis, due to its ease of use, full set of PT modes (including rail, coach etc.), and comparability year-on-year. The alternative datasources sound problematic to import into Accession, and not all modes are represented.

The withdrawal of NPTDR hinders our ability to deliver KPIs and scheme monitoring for DfT, as well as internal analysis. For example, DfT's "Monitoring and Evaluation Framework for Local Authority Major Schemes" expects us to analyse accessibility improvements. The obvious way to do this was to use Accession plus NPTDR; now we need to find an alternative way to meet DfT's requirements.
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4/19/2013 10:51:19 AM

admin
admin
Administrator
Posts: 397
Hi Pete,
We can understand your frustration; we're currently working on a solution to the NPTDR. Unfortunately this would be a paid for service, however we're looking at taking the TNDS data and splitting it into smaller regions like the NPTDR, along with bringing across the ATOC rail data. We hope to release this dataset either twice a year or quarterly on the same date range each year - this should then allow people to do comparative studies using the data. The cost will be small; we're looking at either a £50 + VAT one off download cost, or a £250 + VAT annual subscription to the datasets. The data would be provided as a CIF file only.

I would have to stress, only limited checks would be done on the data - though having looked at the NPTDR - it seems there were little checks done on this dataset.

What are people’s thoughts on this?

Admin
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4/24/2013 9:12:57 AM

RC
RC
Posts: 4
Do the prices quote above cover the whole dataset for England and Wales?

Also, will there be a similar function in the upcoming accession update to covert the data into CIF?

Thanks,
RC
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